20231224 X5 Release Summary by Gingeropolous

 

(my html skills rule. If you don’t like the width of the text… resize your window. Or copy the text and make a PR)

 

It had been almost 4 years since the RandomX fork when August of 2023 rolled around. During those years, the #monero-pow channel was mostly empty. Honestly most of the log space is me asking random questions, and I don’t have the logs for before 2023 because I migrated to a new laptop and didn’t transfer over the logs. Needless to say, the monero PoW space was quiet, and those that had been on the front lines of the 2018-2019 ASIC battle were relatively confident that RandomX was fulfilling its role in promoting and maintaining the decentralization of the monero blockchain.

 

On August 9th 2023,  sech1 posts this: (and you can read the logs here)

 

 

Aug 09 08:07:17 <sech1>        https://xmr.nanopool.org/account/44p7Fu9WBuWeSNravpyJ4nB8ASEpvNamzRiJGFfqPmV6EaRAfiwSBDp4VFi8cRLW3WLrfDT6yPhwb9qGS2S7CihR88KYUWm

Aug 09 08:07:23 <sech1>        https://xmr.nanopool.org/account/84RzYVBUvnYFxfmbrqqa4kAvXDFoWUtm6RdUhF35M4pk3eP81A8AnLdG71mHMqKPjDMLyTPwGLXaTNEQYVumBFZXPmNsYSJ

Aug 09 08:07:35 <sech1>        800 MH/s on two addresses

Aug 09 13:04:24 <gingeropolous>        wowza

 

Now, the hashrate of those miners isn’t available as of writing this document, but you can still see the payouts.

 

 
 

The payouts start in 2020, and notice how frequent they are! Every 1-3 hours, almost 2 xmr. This is some serious hashrate. (Though honestly, during my review of this document and the logs, I don’t see any indication that these addresses were the X5s in testing).

 

About a week later…

 

 

Aug 14 12:50:05 <sech1>        https://www.viperatech.com/product/bitmain-antminer-monero-xmr/

Aug 14 13:02:07 <hyc1>        interesting. so is it real? 2024 release, still vaporware right now

Aug 14 13:03:20 <hyc1>        it's kind of on schedule, really. maybe a little late.

Aug 14 13:12:36 *        hyc1 is now known as hyc

Aug 14 13:39:03 <sech1>        A bit sceptical. It's the only website even mentioning this, and it has 0 technical details

Aug 14 13:43:18 <sech1>        I also found this press-release: https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/649538531/viperatech-inks-preorder-contract-for-next-generation-monero-xmr-miner-bitmain-s-l9-miner-for-dodge-ltc-coins

Aug 14 13:45:08 <sech1>        ViperaTech: founded in 2015, 51-100 employees, headquarters in Montréal

Aug 14 13:45:21 <sech1>        So it doesn't look like short-term scam

Aug 14 13:45:55 <sech1>        But on the other hand, no technical specs can mean it's not really impressive

Aug 14 13:49:35 <sech1>        lol, if I click "Inquiry to buy", it adds a totally different ASIC to the cart

Aug 14 16:34:00 <hyc>        lol

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

And a day later (August 15th), this:

 

 

 

Almost immediately, there is talk of developing a fork to brick these potential ASICs. It turns out there are some optimizations for RandomX that would have been released at some point, but the advent of potential ASICs provides some more momentum to move them along. One such development:

 

https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/8827

 

 

As noted, this improvement isn’t really related to ASIC resistance (it was posted in April 2023, 4 months prior). It just turns out that if there’s an ASIC, due to the nature of how ASICs work (hardwired programming essentially), then any changes to the PoW would brick them.

 

In addition to these changes, there’s talk of reducing CFROUND operations or something.

 

On August 27th, Bitmain tweets the coming of the X5. The advertisement states that its RISC-V, so we already know that the device is not an ASIC.

 

The 212 kh/s stands out to sech1, who is able to infer that these devices are probably responsible for the nonce patterns that have been on the network since 2021.

 

 

https://api.hashvault.pro/v3/monero/network/nonce/distribution/png?hashrate=true&nonceColor=%23ff6600

 

 

Aug 27 12:33:14 <sech1>        those horizontal lines we've noticed after Christmas 2021 and in early 2022

Aug 27 12:33:21 <hyc>        ah right

Aug 27 12:33:32 <sech1>        so they're dumping 2 year old devices :D

Aug 27 12:33:37 <sech1>        2 years of "testing" :D

Aug 27 12:33:42 <hyc>        so they've been at it for at least 2 years, and all they could come up with is barely at parity with AMD

Aug 27 12:33:58 <sech1>        well, 2 years ago they were a bit ahead of best CPUs

Aug 27 12:34:06 <sech1>        now it's on par with tuned Zen4 CPUs

Aug 27 12:34:15 <sech1>        Zen4 EPYCs will be more efficient

 

Now that the computing architecture (RISC-V) of the device is know, there is conversation about whether they are worth bricking or can be bricked. It is a CPU after all. For the following 3 days, there is a lot of conversation on the channel (which has been mostly quiet since RandomX was released). Mostly about tweaks to RandomX that would make consumer CPUs more efficient (that CFROUND thing), or potential instructions to add that RISC-V chips don’t have (which would ultimately brick these Bitmain devices).

 

sech1 discusses a potential tweak that’s not really related to these new devices, and highlights the need for a RandomX fork.

 

 

 

Sep 07 02:46:02 <sech1>        and this L3 read delay (that I suggest to fill with AES) has only been getting bigger from Zen to Zen2 to Zen3 to Zen4

Sep 07 02:46:36 <sech1>        so clock-for-clock, Zen2 is slower than Zen, Zen3 is slower than Zen2 and Zen4 is slower than Zen3

Sep 07 02:47:11 <sech1>        so it shows one of the mistakes in RandomX design - it doesn't get faster for newer CPU generations

Sep 07 02:47:50 <sech1>        it only gets faster because they get higher clock speeds, but IPC (in RandomX instructions) gets lower

 

On September 19th, the X5 firmware is released on the Bitmain site. The text from this session was awesome to watch unfold – just by diving into this software the people in the channel were able to figure out the actual CPU in the device.

 

 

Sep 19 03:46:57 <eureka>        found the cpu, https://www.sophon.ai/product/introduce/sg2042.html

 

The logs from this day are thick with a lot of technical this and that, but a preliminary analysis indicates that these devices were probably not profitable, at all, for bitmain.

 

 

Sep 19 09:09:44 <sech1>        They didn't ROI it, it's too expensive. 10xSG2042 CPUs alone cost more than $10k

Sep 19 09:10:16 <sech1>        40 DDR4 sticks are not free too :D

Sep 19 09:11:26 <sech1>        Bitmain can make more X5 units, but they will lose money if they try to ROI by mining, and they can't sell them at only $3k

Sep 19 09:11:31 <sech1>        So they probably won't make any more

.

Sep 19 12:43:30 <tevador>        SG2042 sells for $1499 on a cheap ATX board, so the real price of the miner should be at least 15k

 

For the rest of September 19th, there is more technical discussion about the X5 and improvements to RandomX that have been baking for a while. Over the next couple of days, tevador publishes some code for RISC-V mining.

 

And finally, on September 28th, polar9669 posts some pictures of the X5.

 

 

 
 
 

Sep 28 01:53:20 <sech1>        Wait, 18 CPUs per machine? lol

Sep 28 01:54:21 <sech1>        And SODIMMs, lol

Sep 28 01:54:32 <sech1>        It's $20k+ per machine in componnents

Sep 28 01:59:34 <sech1>        SG2042R is not the regular SG2042 though, so it probably has AES

 
 

Sep 28 03:33:44 <tevador>        They are selling them for 3k and just the memory costs 2k? lol

Sep 28 03:35:01 <elucidator>        maybe they are pulling amd athlon and disabling bad cores on the 64 core soc to utilize bad batches

Sep 28 03:36:03 <tevador>        Judging by the performance, the SG2042R chip would have a market price of at least $500 a piece.

Sep 28 03:39:23 <tevador>        If they sold the miner at the market price of the components, it should be at least $12k. So there is no real cost advantage compared to a dual Epyc setup.

 

So, there it is. How the release of the X5 unfolded on the monero IRC channel dedicated to PoW. The wizards behind these handles were able to deduce the CPU based on the firmware released, and then there was confirmation of this hardware when pictures of the device were published by an end user. Ultimately, the general consensus is that the market price of the components in the X5 is greater than the price that Bitmain is selling them for, and that in standard Bitmain operating procedure, these boards have been used by Bitmain for about 2 years. Furthermore, these devices are not ASICs, they are instead a high-density CPU unit, so any attempt to brick them would ultimately fail. Finally, there was a flurry of activity regarding improving RandomX so that it matches the developments in consumer-grade hardware, which would have the side effect of making the X5 less efficient.

 

If you read elsewhere that the X5 is the “ASIC” that will break Monero’s ASIC resistance, well that is simply not true. The X5 is a bunch of CPUs, and RandomX was designed to run on CPUs. There is nothing to see here except Bitmain trying their best to extract as much money from the cryptocurrency sector, and the incredible sight of watching random people on this globe work together to figure things out. Based on the economics of these devices, the PoW group doubts that Bitmain will attempt an X6.

 

Though, of course, that depends on how valuable Monero is in the future.